Well, I always wanted to have a big release party. People across America will be joining me in celebration today as the latest volume in the Trader’s Tales drops on Podioboks.com. I hear there’ll be be fireworks tonight.
A Traders Tale from the Golden Age of the Solar Clipper : Book 4
When he graduates from the Academy at Port Newmar, Ishmael Horatio Wang reports for duty in his first assignment as an officer. When he gets to his new ship, he finds things are not exactly the way he’d learned in school. The coffee tastes like used engine oil, the ship has no heart, and the nearest decent tailor is two quadrants away. What’s a new Third Mate to do? Will he be able to trust Billy?
Cover Art: Hubble Site – Antennae Galaxies
Music: “Jigs: Eavesdropper’s / Both Meat & Drink / Off We Go” by Great Big Sea – Available at music.podshow.com
Podcaster’s Promo: “All hands report to download stations”
You don’t have know French to understand why ménage-à -trois fits so well here. <> means to “do the cleaning.†I think everyone understands that ménage-à -trois references both doing the “business†and doing the “cleaning†with three people. Give Nate credit for the intentional reference, eh?
I’m so cosmopolitian, you should pour me in a martini glass and garnish me with a lime wedge :)
Comes from being an old fart.
The french “menage-a-trois” … wihich babelfish thinks means “eternal triangle” … translates freely into “a household of three” … the root “menager” ..to keep house .. is the same root as in the word menagerie.
Ain’t language fun?
nate how could you do the thing that make us coming back for more… again.
I mean I am here at my computer and boom you find out something really cool and it the end. It is like a nightmare come true.
I wish I could say it’s all part of my plan
But it’s just the luck of the draw. :)
Ack, Nathan, I don ‘t think I like this book so much anymore …
OK, so that ‘s not exactly true. I do still like it. I think the characters in this book are less of the kind of people we probably all dream of becoming, and more of the kind of people that we actually are. Most of the Tinker ‘s crew seem to be guys and gals who basically have their hearts in the right place, but are too afraid – and sometimes too self-centered – to do what they know is right, instead of what keeps them out of trouble for one more day. There are some right-out bastards mixed in there for good measure, but then again, such is life. I can ‘t say that I blame you for painting a darker picture of human nature here than you did in your last three books.
However, at this rate, Ishmael is going to find himself booted off the ship by the end of the story, with all of one trip as Third Mate under his belt. No money to speak of, no solid ties in the quadrant, no job, and most likely nothing good coming his way from DST, which – given that Rosset and Burnside are still in charge on the Billy – will take whatever those two say for Gospel. And – to quote Charlotte – that ‘s JUST NOT FAIR.
Then again, maybe it really isn ‘t ABOUT being fair. Maybe it ‘s about teaching this crew how to enjoy the ride, and then taking the fall for their sakes. But if you ‘ve made Ishmael Wang that kind of willing martyr on top of all his other sheer amazingness, I ‘m not going to believe he COULD be real anymore. Which would take all the fun out of listening to the ‘Share’ stories.
So, let ‘s just say that for the moment, I don ‘t like the general direction this is going in, but on the other hand, I have little doubt that there ‘s some kind of maneuver coming, straight out of Sneaky 215, which will make everything click somehow. Waiting for that is part of what makes this story fun to me. It ‘s also what makes me curse myself now for not being able to wait until the book was finished before I started to listen …
It looks very grim for our hero, doesn’t it?
The next 5 have been released.
Hey, isn ‘t it about time for things to start looking up for Ish now? From what I ‘ve heard so far, it doesn ‘t seem like he ‘s going to dodge this big black hole he ‘s (literally?) headed for. But then, you can ‘t kill your hero, right? Right? Two more books to come.
Personally, I think Burnsy is going to do something really extreme. Something that will force the rest of the crew to finally stand up for one of their own as a group. Most of them probably care more than enough for Ish by now that they would be willing to put their own asses on the line for him if need be. And those that don ‘t aren ‘t worth a shot at any kind of redemption anyway. David Burnside doesn ‘t sound like the kind of guy who would hold up very long if he were confronted with the pent-up anger of his whole crew. Which means he ‘s going to get clumsy in his desperation, which means that many more reasons for DST to finally kick him out. And then, hopefully, THAT in turn will cause the powers that be to scrutinize the rest of the command structure on the Billy as well. Notably, the Captain, I hope. He deserves no better than Burnside and his goons.
That said, I hope I ‘m wrong, because it would be a little too “Hollywood”. We ‘ll see …
You’re kinda on the horns of a dilemma there, Hade.
If Ishmael “loses” you’re “not going to believe he COULD be real anymore. Which would take all the fun out of listening to the ‘Share’ stories.”
If Ishmael “wins” then “it would be a little too ‘Hollywood’.”
Is there any middle ground there for you? :)
OK, guilty as charged.
But yes, there is middle ground there. Both scenarios I have envisioned thus far are kind of extreme. In one, Ish is so selfless I won ‘t believe it. In the other, everything is so black and white that I won ‘t believe it. My point is, real people are never 100% selfless. By their very nature, they ‘re survivors. They will fight for those they care for, but when it really comes down to it, they have to let themselves come first. Among other things, if they don ‘t love themselves, they ultimately can ‘t be there for others, either.
Similarly, in the real world, there are no “good guys” and “bad guys”, which is what I mean when I say “Hollywood”. There are good people who do bad things, for all kinds of reasons. Eventually, they may have done so many bad things that they themselves are having trouble believing that there ‘s some good in them, yet. Let alone that other people will believe it.
As for how that all applies to this story … I ‘m not sure. You ‘re the author. But it seems to me, one possible way to go for “middle ground” would be to make Ishmael ‘lose’ (he gets kicked off the ship, reprimand stays where it is, DST doesn ‘t particularly like him anymore), but not without a fight. Ultimately, this is how things often go in real life, it seems to me. There ‘s no magical power making everything right again at the end of the chapter, and no all-knowing force keeping an eye on the general balance of justice versus injustice in someone ‘s life. But one of the strong suits of Ishmael as a character, if you ask me, is his unrelenting ability to make lemonade when life hands him lemons. In the end, that ‘s what makes him a “hero”. Whether he ‘wins’ or not is kind of irrelevant in that context.
Am I making any sense now?
Probably not, but I have to go back to work, and for what it ‘s worth, I ‘m going to post this anyway. I ‘m not going to be pissed if you moderate it out ;-).
– Hade
Very good points. Thanks for clearing that up for me, Hade. :)
The last 10 chapters are in production now. We’ll just have to see where we fall out in the end, eh?
:)
I do believe a thought has been forgotten… Ish was hired before there was an opening, someone is playing chess. Someone knows about the problems on board if you get the right pieces in place and let the fall out happen.
@ Jack: Well, yes. There is that, isn ‘t there?
Which is why part of me still thinks there ‘s some kind of “Sneaky 215” maneuver in the works. But I ‘m pretty sure we would have to make a lot of big assumptions to explain how and why DST would purposely try to involve Ishmael Wong – of all people – in solving a problem that could probably have been solved a long time ago.
First of all, if DST already knows what kind of ship Rosset and Burnside run, and they disapprove of it at all, why weren ‘t these guys relieved of their contracts a long time ago? Replace the ostrich with a man who actually knows how to run a ship, and you ‘ve solved most of the Billy ‘s problems. The rest can be solved by kicking out one or two other wrotten apples, and maybe having a heart to heart talk with the rest of them. The only problem is that ‘s not going to work if you leave it in the hands of a man who learned to smile in front of a mirror. Which brings us back to replacing the Captain.
Second, assuming the company didn ‘t want to or couldn ‘t solve the problem by getting rid of the Captain and his goons, do you really think they ‘d hire a boot Third Mate and ship him all the way from Newmar to Diurnia as a backup strategy? To put him on a ship where boot Thirds are considered an unwelcome distraction at best?
Even if they did hire Ishmael on purpose for some reason – and it certainly looks like they did – there is no way they could have known beforehand that he would solve even a few of the Billy ‘s problems. That would be rather a “happy serendipity”.
Maybe they had heard of Ish’s pooka incident with CC? Or maybe the owner of DST and the commandant are just old friends?
You ‘ve got a point about Malone and the Commandant probably knowing each other somehow. And yes, the Commandant – by virtue of being Captain Chiggone ‘s father, if not some other way – would have known that Ishmael Wong is the kind of guy who makes any ship a better ship for being on it. But despite that, I ‘m not just going to accept that ‘s THE reason they recruited him. Months in advance, straight out of Port Newmar, splurging an inordinate amount of cash on his transport to Diurnia? And you want me to believe there wasn ‘t some other, more expedient way of dealing with the situation?
Sorry. Even if that turns out to be the way the story tries to sell it in the end, I ‘m never going to buy it. There has to be some other reason, even if it ‘s just the Commandant calling in a favor to an old friend, because he thought the landrat Ishmael Wong deserved to get a berth.
Here is my two cents worth on the current topic. Let’s back up remember that Ish was having trouble finding an offer how did he get the job? whose help was it? oh yeah the commandants recommendation. Lets look at the next bit of info. The evidence that foul play is afoot is there. the crew mates video tape. you have sissy leaving with no apparent reason and no one knows how she got out of her contract. I also found it very convenient that Kurt who appears to be a body guard with out it being said is on the C. Ellis and helps to train Ish once again with self defense. Also lets look at a few other things. lets look at two of the officers. one went to the academy with Captian Alice. the other was sent to the academy by alice. That leaves a second mate who is not connected the Chignon’s and a cook besides the first mate and the captain.
another thing to remember is we now have a captain and first mate as well as the actual captain and first mate. kinda wondering if the captain and first mate are the subject of a mutiny and then ish gets a promotion to 2nd mate. ….. or some crazy thing like that.
Another problem that DST is having is the lack of proof. So if you “take over” from the inside out with the power of a leader leading by example. I find this set believable actually and consistent with the universe created.
ditto just wondering how he ties the lose end of captain and first mate up can not wait to see the out come.
Predictions: Fredi obvious choice for new Captain; Current 2nd who just passed first mate replaces current 1st mate.
No great blood bath at the ok corral, there’s a Bug’s Life style climax with all the little people finally standing up to the big bullies. Only in the aftermath does anyone ever listen to Ish’s recording we find out that Burnside blackmailed the Captain the whole time. Captain was prisoner on his own ship.
Wooooo .. I had *no* idea this was going to be such an interesting conversation.
And for reference .. her name was Captain Giggone (a French pronunciation “zhe-GON” like “own” and not “gown”). Her father is Commandant Robert Giggone.
I can say that my beta readers HAVE found the ending to be logical and largely satisfying. I don’t expect it to satisfy everybody.
You’ll be able to make up your own minds in a couple of days. :)
Is the captain of the billy gay, as that would explain the comings and goings of the 2 male crew from engineering department from his cabin or maybe they are his spies.
_*’S’*_
If it matters, Nathan, I ‘m not here to trash your story before I ‘ve heard all of it. Far from it, actually. I have little doubt that when I eventually hear what you ‘ve made of it, I ‘ll like that far more than any crackpot theory I could have come up with. I just like to speculate. What can I say?
And Dustin, you ‘re hitting on something I ‘ve been wondering about myself, there. I ‘m not sure that Captain Giggone or her father had anything to do with Ish and/or Fredi being on the Billy – other than Ish having gotten that recommendation for Nate knows what reason – but there ‘s something strange about them being there instead of anywhere else in the universe.
OK, we got an explanation for Ish: he ‘s a first generation spacer, and unlike some others in Captain Giggone ‘s group of chosen ones, he didn ‘t graduate suma cum laude. Aside from the fact that – as Rosset points out – the recruitment in itself was strange, it ‘s not like Ish had a lot of choice about taking the gig or not. If he hadn ‘t taken that one, chances are he wouldn ‘t have gotten one at all.
But for Fredi, things are different. Since she ‘s one of Alice ‘s Cadets, she was probably quite remarkable even before she went to the Academy. It ‘s obvious she ‘s picked up a good amount of experience since then (she even sat for Captain and passed!), and she ‘s a smart woman. She should be able to do better for herself than cargo first on a ship where she lives in constant fear of her direct superiors. So why hasn ‘t she?
If there ‘s a reason Ishmael ended up on the Billy, then there ‘s a reason Fredi is there, too. I don ‘t think I agree with you about the Giggones having to do something with that, but there ‘s definitely something odd going on there, if you ask me. I can ‘t wait for all the puzzle pieces to click!
Oh, i’m enjoying your speculations, Hade.
The questions you’re asking are REALLY helping me to make sure the story hangs together :)
Please tell me that doesn’t mean another last minute rewrite. I almost went crazy waiting for the last chapter of Full Share. :)
No, it’ll be complete this week … it’s all about how much quiet I can find in the house to do the recording.
I *have* added some bits to the “big conclusion” to answer some of the questions a little better, but it’s pretty much done.
I so can not wait for this to be done. I freaking love Listening to how Ish handles all the conflicts he faces. I have to admit I got back from moving my girl friend in North Carolina. I just about fainted when I found out instead of the five I knew would be waiting for me there where ten. I have family in town two aunts two uncles grandma grandpa and one cousin. I downloaded all 10 episodes and put them on my ipod I then went to bed around 11pm I was up until 3:30 or 4:30 monday morning listening to ish. I have listened to the episodes three to four times since then I just found out about captain meeting after jump. I think I was half alseep and forgot about that part. Man I have to say I get so hyped up about this story and universe that I can not remember the last thing that has gotten me so wired and hyped up about. all of the good books are the ones you can not put down till 3 in the morning when you finish it. this is one of the best we could hope for.
Hades I love the comment (for Nate Knows what reason) I just about spewed coffee out my nose. I also agree with you on all parts. I get on here to talk about this because I get so wired up about the dang story that I got to talk to somebody about it or i feel like I’m going to burst. you are raising some really great points your self. I do think you are kinda getting just a little unrealistic with the Giggones placing Fredi on the Tinker. I get this feeling that she and Mel where an Item at some point in the past on different ships. I think that they decided to try to get on the same ship and at some point both positions on the tinker opened and they took the posts that sounds very likely. or that one of them moved there then the other followed or something. fredi is just so withdrawn that she seems very unlikely to be a plant. It is like she got on and was preyed upon for a long time and withdrew till finally mel came to find her or something. that I could believe more readily. I am sure Nate will enlighten us in due time. Oh yeah Nate are you gonna let us know just How much Ish made on his first trip as third mate?
ahhhhhh I love this can not possibly wait for this to come up.
Dustin
@ Dustin: I ‘m not saying Fredi is a “plant”. In fact, I ‘m trying to say the exact opposite. I don ‘t believe in this idea of “plants”. Not for Ish, and certainly not for Fredi. I ‘m only wondering why a woman of miss De Groot ‘s obvious skill and experience stays on a ship like the Tinker. To quote Ish, from one of the earlier books: she ‘s basically doing a job that implies little more than eighty days of “yup, it ‘s still there”. And she ‘s doing it in an environment that scares the crap out of her.
OK, so there ‘s the contract. It might just be a money problem (getting out of this contract can be done, but brings a financial penalty, if I remember correctly). Or it might even be that she does stay because of Mel. Arletta seems to think so, at any rate. In fact, the more I think about that possibility, the more likely it seems to me. Aside from love, I think there ‘s little else that could lure an intelligent person with the right work ethic and credentials into working a boring job for an outright hostile superior. But maybe that ‘s just me. I tend to be a little naive about how that kind of things works in the real world.
And redcheetos … the Captain, a prisoner on his own ship? That ‘s one I hadn ‘t thought of before :-D. It ‘s not a bad idea, methinks. Captain Rosset kind of fits the profile – it seems like he ‘s WILLING to do his best; for instance, he was told once he “needed to look pleasant when dealing with subordinates”, and he tries to take that advice. He ‘s just not very good at it. Maybe the whole “I ‘m God” act is just a way to hide his insecurity. Which would make him an ideal target for blackmail by an Alpha male like Burnside …
Am enjoying the discussion here and just wanted to mention that it is exactly the kind of stuff we want to talk about on the forum too. So for anyone hasn’t checked it out yet, come and join our discussions there too ! Just nav to the top right sidebar.
I greatly enjoyed this story! Best of the series in my opinion. I had no trouble believing the ending, and it tied up the loose ends quite satisfactorily. That is as much as I’ll say for a few days in an effort to not spoil it for anyone still working their way through the final episodes. Thanks so much for your hard work getting this out to us so quickly.
I’m planning on another listen, Nate, but help me out in advance, how do you see the transformation of Freddi? How does the bird-like timidity of one who has tolerated the assaults and harassment on crew mates get to become someone with the bearing of a captain? Is she physically afraid? Is she psychologically beaten down?
I guess you make the case too well that any upstanding individual would take a stand. Make all changes within their power. I she turns round the bully on her first day with Burnside out of the picture with her mad personal leadership skills, I didn’t follow why she hadn’t made a difference on the ship. Is it that Mel made a difference within her sphere, but Freddi didn’t have a section to work with? She was walled off and vulnerable to physical attack?
*** HERE THAR BE SPOILERS ***
Sometimes, people — good, competent, decent people — get walled in over time. They accrue protective walls one brick at a time over long periods, not even seeing them build up, unaware of what is happening to them because it happens so slowly. They huddle behind their walls, withdrawing from the world, retreating from the pain. At some point, and for some people, circumstances develop to allow them to become aware of their walls and provide an opportunity to break them down.
Something happened to effect Fredi personally. Until that happened she was walled off behind her own protective … keeping the bird metaphor … shell of pain. When that event cracked the shell by requiring her to operate outside her comfort level, coupled with the catalytic effect of the evolving crew dynamic, she was placed in a position where she became aware of that shell and had the wherewithal to overcome it. Keep in mind that this breaking down of the shell occurred over time. It began with The Incident, and was encouraged by her conversation on the mess deck, and then left to develop over several weeks in what amounted to a meditative state before the opportunity came to cast the shell off in its entirety.
That’s how I see it.
What I don’t understand about the ending is why in the end Burnside couldn’t be disciplined. Between Penny Davies telling the company that she had been sexually assaulted, and Apones (who is now a nice boy needing a strong hand, I hate that by the way, he should have been iced) going informer, and Ishmael giving testimony on what happened to him (the punch on bridge was certainly not within the standing orders and long standing common practice I would think) one would think that there would be enough evidence to hang him out to dry. At least to take his ticket away if not to jail him.
@ Anne: I think that one is actually spelled out in the text itself: there is a big gap between “what we know to be true” and “what we can prove in a court of law”. Penny Davies was assaulted, and everybody who was on the ship at the time knows that. But the bruises from that particular assault had healed by the time they saw port again, and there is no evidence that Burnside was directly involved in the second one. Same goes for the punch on the bridge. There is no evidence that it actually happened, except for Ishmael saying so, and if there ever was any evidence, it has long since healed.
As for Apones, I don ‘t know that he ‘s “gone informer”. He just strikes me as the kind of guy who picks the winning side. Perhaps not as calculatingly as some would, because he ‘s obviously not the brightest bulb in the box. But if he gravitates toward the person with the most authority, he can ride along ON that person ‘s authority. I think he derives more self-worth from that than anything else.
Thank you very much for a greatly enjoyable book. I know you barely finished recording, but I’m truly looking forward to the next story, should you write one. Your stories are different, very much character driven, you actually feel like living the ordinary life of a spacer with the characters. Great Great and once more great and I owe you my thanks for many greatly spent hours with your audïobooks.
One of the first misconceptions about crime and punishment is that there are laws governing how the ship is managed while underway. Once you’re beyond the “3 mile limit” the Captain’s word is law. Rossett was NOT simply being dramatic and bombastic. He was being factually correct. There ARE some generally agreed on safety based protocols but even today, there’s a reason ships at sea are not bound by the laws of the land.
Burnside’s punching Ishmael was poor management, but perfectly legal as long as the Captain supported it. The attack on Ishmael in his cabin was perfectly legal. Even if they’d marched in, announced who they were and recorded what they were doing, so that Ishmael’s booby-trapped intercom recorded it, it wasn’t illegal so long as the Captain chose to ignore it. It was simply poor management.
Likewise the assaults on Penny Davies were not illegal. They happened in space. The Captain has sole jurisdiction there. The ONE assault that WAS illegal was on Breakall when she was beaten and left on the 08 deck. It was accomplished by a conspiracy of Apones, Mosler, Burnside, and Xiang. It was very skillfully done and the only person who MIGHT have been implicated by virtue of the video surveillance had an ironclad alibi as being on watch on the ship at the time. It was also stupid. They should have waited until the ship was underway, and they could have done it with impunity. They were “making a statement” about Ishmael’s “protection” … which was illusory and ONLY made real by the strength it gave the individuals to stand on their own two feet.
The Captain’s disappearance while the ship was docked was calculated to make sure he didn’t do anything that could be construed as illegal in port, and the only time he left the Cabin (his official office) was for those prescribed periods when safety regulations required him to appear on the bridge.
You’re right. Apones probably should have been iced, but he was simply the tool. Giving him a more severe punishment than the person pulling his strings seemed too much like “you hit me, i’ll hit you back” to me. I much prefer the idea that over time he learns and suffers very slowly for decades as his own guilt chews away at him.
great book loved it this book felt so much smaller to me . I still feel that quarter share is the longest listening to it I have no idea why. I have to say if i had to choose my favorite book that you have written I think I would choose double share. you have the people to cheer for and those to curse. I wish that the crew had kinda had an uprising or something just cause…. no good reason. kinda wish you had a little more about what happened to Ish does he stay. the way the conversation between Mr . Maloney and Ish was like they where saying good bye. (kinda)
I must say, Nate, this “captain’s law” thing is the biggest weak spot in your story.
Any company who wants any kind of competent crew would never leave themselves open to not being able to get rid of a bad captain. Or allow any captain to be so lax. If for no other reason then to not lose ships.
This kind of thing makes more sense if the owner is the captain, or the owners are fiends themselves.
Another point. Captains are licensed in your universe. There should be some kind of “captain’s board” or review process in place.
If space law is based on maritime law, at all, then the crew should be protected by it, not abandoned.
And I can’t believe the union never got involved?
Did you get a little tired at the end, and decide to just wrap things up quickly? I can understand that. Endings are the hardest part of a story. At least for me.
Otherwise, excellent story overall. I’ve recommend it to others.
Of course he stays, Dustin. He ‘s under contract with DST. Also, they ‘ve got a new second mate, but no new third :-).
Well if the “‘captain’s law’ thing” is the biggest weak spot, then I’m flattered. It’s not something I made up. The captain is the law under maritime law here. Only recently has the power of Captain NOT included capital punishment — and in some countries it still does. And like here, there IS a maritime review board, and like here, the Captain’s word is law while the vessel is underway with very broad interpretations. Now US interpretations of Maritime law and the influence of Unions here have added layers on that. So don’t be confusing Union work rule for law, nor US interpretations of Maritime law for the regulations put forth by the Confederated Planets Joint Committee on Trade Subcommittee on Rules. In many ways, the rules of this universe are a rather more of a throwback to the 18th and 19th Century than they are the enlightened 20th.
As for the owner not being able to fire the Captain. Yea. That is weak. If it’s my ship, I should be able to say who runs it and the Captain SHOULD be cognizant of the owner’s wishes. But when you have bureaucracies involved in rule making … and lawyers interpreting actions … things can get a little odd. And don’t forget that Maloney was bound by the contract. We don’t really know what was in the Captain’s contract and I suspect that subsequent contracts would be worded differently.
Anyway. That’s the premise and I’ll stand by it. Weak or not. We’ll be exploring more of this in the next two books, so don’t think you’ve seen the last of these issues. It’s very disconcerting, I realize.
As for the ending, no. When Maloney finally had what he needed, he took the action he was permitted to under the operating rules of the CPJCT and his contract. There wasn’t a lot more of the story to tell.
Now there IS a different story that comes along as the crew comes to deal with the new realities and Chauncey Schott’s sense of humor, but it’s more of the old, boring, nothing ever happens sort that I was so roundly criticized for in the first three novels :)
Oh, Justin.
Ish DOES stay and serves out his contract as third mate before going on to discover an insidious alien plot to overthrow the Universe, turn humanity into a smorgasbord, and generally make the Vogon Destructor Fleet look like a bunch of pansies. He’s then eaten as an hors d’oeuvre and we all wake up to find the Golden Age is a work of fiction.
Kidding.
Except about the “he stays” and “fiction” parts.
:D
Dee… Unlike you, I think the ending was perfect. One of the things I like about Nate’s books is the reality in them. In real life, all the bad guys don’t get punished. In real life, it is impossible to convict anybody of anything without hard evidence. It would boil down to a case of he-said, she-said. You can never predict how the judge will rule in that case (as I know from sad personal experience.)
Maritime law has NEVER protected the crew. It as always been all on the captain’s side. For example, Mutiny on the Bounty, and look how long it took to address the problems of the US Navy! The reason being, IMHO, is the fact you are out there… miles away from any sort of authority. If the captain ISN’T the supreme authority on the ship, you have conflicting orders, and — in most cases — that means dead crew members in an emergency.
As for the difficulty of getting rid of bad captains, the same rules apply for getting rid of a bad CEO. Very difficult to do without some hard evidence of incompitance.
All this said, this is assuming a formal government… which Nate has explained is NOT the way things are run. Without a formal type government, there is very little legal protections.
Nate, I really enjoyed all 4 of your books and my is looking forward to having the entire collection in print. I have always enjoyed the culture of “we are all in this togeather” I applies to all things in life, work, family, an not just to the deep dark. Nate, your reading style is smooth and “comfortable”. We can listen to you read while driving and always feel relaxed and refreshed when we arrive. Thank you for your great fiction and keep up in the podcasts.
Oh I loved all the previous stories. There was maybe a little too much “Mary Sue”-ness to them sometimes. But all the coffe-making, baking, trading and knitting made up for it.
I’m a knitter-crocheter from long back and you made a fan for life with all that in the story. There should be a ravelry group about your stories.
Drama and intrigue have their places, but “day in the life” stories are few and far between in the podcast world (at least that’s how I find it to be)
Actually, there IS a ravelry group … I’m in it :)
The fact that Burnside and Rosset have stayed in place for so long, despite patently bad managment (that ‘s gotta be the understatement of the month), had me confused as well. But that ‘s because I assumed Rosset WAS merely being a dramatic megalomaniac when he told Ishmael “I am God”. Apparently, that was a faulty assumption.
I don ‘t have any solid knowledge of law in general, let alone US Maritime law, but when you think about it, it seems kind of logical that a vessel underway would not be subject to the laws of the land. Except for small patches of territorial waters, most seas don ‘t “belong” to one country or another to begin with. So how would it be decided which particular set of laws to follow? I guess there could be some kind of convention for that, like following the laws that apply wherever the owner ‘s company is based. From an anecdote that was recently on the news here, I know that it ‘s like that for international airplanes: a girl was born on a commercial passenger flight between Egypt and Belgium. She got Belgian nationality, because the plain was owned by a Belgian company, and so she had technically been born in Belgium.
However, as Diane pointed out, enforcing any law requires the presence of some kind of authority watching over the adherence to that law. On the land, there ‘s a whole system for that. But since a ship, unlike an airplane, can literally be out of touch with the rest of the world for weeks or months at a time in some cases, it makes sense that the ultimate authority would be the Captain of that ship. It makes even more sense in Nathan ‘s universe where, as far as we know, there are no means of long-distance communication, other than the beacon points, and those only work within a certain distance from the planet.
I do wonder about how far the captain’s law goes. In the book when Ishmael and Arletta talk about Ulla Nart and Apones, Ishmael claims that he would lose his ticket if he walked away when a crew member was in danger. Still it seems that if Rosset allowed it and Burnside demanded it, Ish would be in far more trouble if he stopped it (nautically, though morally clearly he was right to do what he did.) Its a complicated thing, that wasn’t quite worked out. Clearly in the book the CPJCT has some kind of enforcible standards that would seem to prevent at least some of what goes by ‘patently bad management’, but in a very real way, unless the management allows the ship to go awry and either endanger ship, station, or profit, the Captain can decide best practice almost without regard to those regulations. It seems like it gels with modern maritime law (and even more like it gels with earlier maritime law, think of forced pressing into service that was popular in the early modern period), but it also is occasionally contradicted in the text. These little concerns, I need only add, allow for such congenial discussions among fans and interested parties
I was thinking about one more specific to Tales/Share stories. If we knew what was being knitted/crocheted on the Lois we could add KAL/CAL projects. Maybe I’ll join the podbook addict group later. I’m there as yellowduckie, it’s a name I use just for crafting sites (Ravelry, Craftster). Keeps things in order for me.
There are a couple of patterns already in the Podiobook addicts group on Ravelry … we’ve been playing around over there for a few weeks now.
Do you have links to the patterns. I’m not finding them.
Oh and back to DS. Even if the owner couldn’t fire the captain, couldn’t he have fired the 1st mate? Seeing how the captain was basically being a puppet, put a good puppet master in place.
http://durandus.org/fans/index.php?topic=7.msg199#msg199
Sorry .. it was in the Fan Forums … you’ll see some familar Ravelry faces there I think …
That might have worked, yes. Wonder why he didn’t think of it…